From tom@... Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:20:35 +0100 From: Tom Blench To: xwax-devel Subject: [xwax-devel] UFO202 - no good for xwax! Hi, Just thought I'd let you all know that I thought the Behringer UFO202 (or rather 2 of them) would be the ideal interface for xwax, given how cheap they are and how they have built-in phono preamps. However, it turns out that there is a hard-wired monitor output which you can't switch off, so basically the input is summed with the output - the result being that you get the timecode tone in your output. This has been confirmed by Behringer support. That's a shame, because I can't believe how expensive some of the 4-in 4-out interfaces are. I think I'll have to resort to using a Behringer BEAT800 as a 2-deck preamp (and completely ignore the BPM counter) wired up to my Yamaha 01x (this is on the Mac) which has lots of inputs and outputs. The alternative I guess would be to forgo the phono preamp and use an interface with high gain, since the timecoder doesn't care about RIAA equalisation. I think I'll give that a try - anyone got a reason why this shouldn't work? Tom From p.yorick@... Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:00:05 +1000 From: Tyson Henning Cc: xwax-devel Subject: Re: [xwax-devel] UFO202 - no good for xwax! Ugh. That's Behringer for you... All fun and games until you want to use it in a way that the designer did not exactly intend. I recently did some research into 4/4 interfaces and wound up grabbing a Native Instruments Audio 4 DJ. It's reasonably priced, very good quality, has built-in preamps and comes with a monitor channel. If you're willing to go with a PCI interface (and put up with the higher noise floor that implies) the Delta 1010LT I was running for a few years was very, very good but you need phono amps. In your case you've got some good enough for timecode. Hercules also came out with a box called the "Deejay Trim" recently, which is a 4/6 interface with preamps for $250. Not that much cheaper than an NI Audio 8 DJ, which has the same I/O loadout, but it could be worth a look. As for going phono straight to a sound card and using a software amp, there's no real reason it shouldn't work... But it usually doesn't work very well. The signal is usually very noisy, so there's a lot of jitter. YMMV. Hope that helps! ~Yorick From mark@... Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:44:04 +0100 (BST) From: Mark Hills To: Tom Blench Cc: xwax-devel Subject: Re: [xwax-devel] UFO202 - no good for xwax! On Mon, 20 Jul 2009, Tom Blench wrote: > Hi, > > Just thought I'd let you all know that I thought the Behringer UFO202 (or > rather 2 of them) would be the ideal interface for xwax, given how cheap > they are and how they have built-in phono preamps. However, it turns out > that there is a hard-wired monitor output which you can't switch off, so > basically the input is summed with the output - the result being that you > get the timecode tone in your output. This has been confirmed by Behringer > support. If it's mixing its input through to output in analogue then is there a conductor on the PCB which can be cut? That would be lucky. I'm suprised they have this feature; I'd have thought it would put costs up, not down. > That's a shame, because I can't believe how expensive some of the 4-in 4-out > interfaces are. I think I'll have to resort to using a Behringer BEAT800 as > a 2-deck preamp (and completely ignore the BPM counter) wired up to my > Yamaha 01x (this is on the Mac) which has lots of inputs and outputs. > > The alternative I guess would be to forgo the phono preamp and use an > interface with high gain, since the timecoder doesn't care about RIAA > equalisation. I think I'll give that a try - anyone got a reason why this > shouldn't work? > > Tom > -- Mark From martin.horn@... Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:47:08 +0200 From: Martin Horn Cc: xwax-devel Subject: Re: [xwax-devel] UFO202 - no good for xwax!/ software preamps Hi Tom, at the moment I am playing with a Maya44 USB interface which is 100 Euros and works without problems. You will need external preamps but you can also do it without (which doesn't work very well because of too much noise). But you can simply use software preamps. A phono preamp is an amplifier in combination with a high pass at 1khz or so. I set this up in jackrack and used to play well with it, but in the end it needs also processing power and is one thing which can cause a click in your performance so finally I decided to use hardware preamps. I am not a linux geek and found out that tuning up the audio system takes a lot of time depending on computer, distro, kernel and so on... It could be useful to build a software FIR filter with fixed amplification and low pass values which should be easier to process for the cpu and include it with xwax as a command line option, but I am not the one to do it... Another important thing is to make a webpage where all experiences with interfaces preamps and so can be documented. Regards Martin From tom@... Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:00:04 +0100 From: Tom Blench To: xwax-devel Subject: Re: [xwax-devel] UFO202 - no good for xwax!/ software preamps Thanks Martin, The Maya44 was top of my list after a bit of research, so thanks for the recommendation. The fact that it is USB class compliant is very attractive! Thanks for the heads up about a "software preamp". I think I am going to get the BEAT800 in combination with the Maya44. This would enable me to play "real" records by enabling playthrough in xwax (it's very simple to do with the jack implementation - about 4 lines of code, might be more difficult for other audio backends). Tom From ozruta@... Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:39:29 +0200 From: Martin Ortuta To: Tom Blench Cc: xwax-devel Subject: Re: [xwax-devel] UFO202 - no good for xwax!/ software preamps Hi. Sorry for spammin, I`m not very familiar with using mailing lists at all yet I`m using xwax with a pair of these USB soundcards http://www1.conrad-uk.com/scripts/wgate/zcop_uk/~flNlc3Npb249UDkwX0NPUF9VSzpDX0FHQVRFMTg6MDAwMC4wMTE2LjAyYjBiYzQ5Jn5odHRwX2NvbnRlbnRfY2hhcnNldD1pc28tODg1OS0xJn5TdGF0ZT0zNjk1MjgwMzQ5====?~template=PCAT_AREA_S_BROWSE&mfhelp=&p_selected_area=%24ROOT&p_selected_area_fh=&perform_special_action=&glb_user_js=Y&shop=UK&vgl_artikel_in_index=&product_show_id=&p_page_to_display=DirektSearch&~cookies=1&zhmmh_lfo=&zhmmh_area_kz=&s_haupt_kategorie=&p_searchstring=&p_searchstring_artnr=&p_searchstring_manufac_artnr=+303093&p_search_category=alle&fh_directcall=&r3_matn=&insert_kz=&gvlon=&area_s_url=&brand=&amount=&new_item_quantity=&area_url=&direkt_aufriss_area=&p_countdown=&p_80= &p_80_category=&p_80_article=&p_next_template_after_login=&mindestbestellwert=&login=&password=&bpemail=&bpid=&url=&show_wk=&use_search=3&p_back_template=&template=&kat_save=&updatestr=&vgl_artikel_in_vgl=&titel=&darsteller=®isseur=&anbieter=&genre=&fsk=&jahr=&jahr2=&dvd_error=X&dvd_empty_error=X&dvd_year_error=&call_dvd=&kna_news=&p_status_scenario=&documentselector=&aktiv=&gewinnspiel=&p_load_area=$ROOT&p_artikelbilder_mode=&p_sortopt=&page=&p_catalog_max_results=20 It has phono preamp and switch for setting between phono and line input. I use it under Ubuntu 9.04 with alsa and don`t have any problem. It use generic usb drivers. Probably its not any low latecy soundcard, but works with xwax very well. I also found that card selled under various brands here and there over internet. The price for two of this card is not more than price for Maya 44 usb, and you get cheap working usb card with phono preamp included. Best Martin From ozruta@... Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:56:22 +0200 From: Martin Ortuta Cc: xwax-devel Subject: Re: [xwax-devel] UFO202 - no good for xwax!/ software preamps I posted dead link in my previous post. This link shoud work: http://www.conrad-uk.com/goto.php?artikel=303093 Martin From mark@... Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:46:03 +0100 (BST) From: Mark Hills To: Martin Horn Cc: xwax-devel Subject: Re: [xwax-devel] UFO202 - no good for xwax!/ software preamps On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, Martin Horn wrote: > at the moment I am playing with a Maya44 USB interface which is 100 > Euros and works without problems. You will need external preamps but > you can also do it without (which doesn't work very well because of > too much noise). But you can simply use software preamps. A phono > preamp is an amplifier in combination with a high pass at 1khz or so. > I set this up in jackrack and used to play well with it, but in the > end it needs also processing power and is one thing which can cause a > click in your performance so finally I decided to use hardware > preamps. I am not a linux geek and found out that tuning up the audio > system takes a lot of time depending on computer, distro, kernel and > so on... > It could be useful to build a software FIR filter with fixed > amplification and low pass values which should be easier to process > for the cpu and include it with xwax as a command line option, but I > am not the one to do it... Careful with 'software preamps' -- there's no such thing as a free lunch. I've never seen one work as well as in hardware because the accuracy is decreased by the soundcard noise. I'd love to be proved wrong. xwax is already doing a bunch of filtering to get rid of low frequency noise. It has to do this, to avoid the rumble when you touch the vinyl. The noise isn't generally at these frequencies though. The timecode tone is typically 1kHz though, so don't filter there. I even found one soundcard where the noise itself had a pure (but low volume) 1kHz tone! > Another important thing is to make a webpage where all experiences with > interfaces preamps and so can be documented. There's some discussion on the MsPinky forums: http://www.mspinky.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=2 Although I'm not sure about "Announcment: Get rid of that worthless U46DJ piece of shit" :-) I've had xwax running nicely on a MixVibes U46DJmk2 on Linux; perhaps it's a mk1 or a driver issue causing the problems. Might be worth considering as a budget interface with lots of features. -- Mark